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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Pop-Pop Point, NC (Read 25275 times)
Tim4d
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Pop-Pop Point, NC
Nov 12th, 2013 at 3:02pm
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Posting these for L82Play, who collects from his back yard in Raleigh.  As told to me, he showed the pockmarked rock to a geologist and was told that it was the result of exposure to mineworks furnace/foundry.  Hmm.  Sure looks like garnet in graphite to me.  Yes, it's a harder and tougher graphite matrix than what I saw at Little Pine garnet mine, but the creek in L82Play's yard is full off graphite of various hardness and apparant stages of metamorphis.  (A medium-hard example is in the first photo in front of the pockmarked pieces.)  Maybe the geologist didn't give it much more than a glance.  Cleaned with vinegar and water a bit, second photo, and you can clearly see the garnet remnants in the "sockets".  Does anyone have any background on old graphite mining practices?  Did they use on-site furnace/foundry processing?
  

garnet_dry.JPG ( 170 KB | 116 Downloads )
garnet_dry.JPG
garnet_medium.JPG ( 167 KB | 145 Downloads )
garnet_medium.JPG
garnet_close_in.JPG ( 245 KB | 114 Downloads )
garnet_close_in.JPG
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Tim4d
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #1 - Nov 12th, 2013 at 3:04pm
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There is lots of fairly clear, stream-tumbled quartz, colorless, milky and smoky.  And plenty of partially-crystalized pieces, like this one.
  

quartz_001.JPG ( 168 KB | 131 Downloads )
quartz_001.JPG
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Tim4d
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #2 - Nov 12th, 2013 at 3:10pm
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Oh, and one more thing.  L82Play finds plenty of interesting rocks after the creek floods.  Like this green thing.  My wife and I were visiting yesterday.  When L82Play showed us this one, she grabbed a bucket and headed for the creek! Are emerald and Raleigh often found in the same sentence?
  

emerald_1.JPG ( 171 KB | 129 Downloads )
emerald_1.JPG
emerald_2.JPG ( 247 KB | 128 Downloads )
emerald_2.JPG
Garnet_and_Emerald.JPG ( 155 KB | 124 Downloads )
Garnet_and_Emerald.JPG
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Tim4d
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #3 - Nov 12th, 2013 at 3:13pm
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The green is just under layer of black biotite (or whatever that is), similar to what I saw at the Crabtree emerald mine.
  
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Tim4d
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #4 - Nov 12th, 2013 at 3:16pm
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OK, I'm out of here for a while.  If you have questions and comments, ask L82Play.
  
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Rebecca
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #5 - Nov 12th, 2013 at 4:55pm
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Wow. That sure looks like the emerald matrix from the 'Tree. Other stuff is very interesting - it definitely looks like garnet.
That is an interesting backyard you have. Thanks for sharing.
  
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L82Play
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #6 - Nov 12th, 2013 at 7:56pm
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Thanks for posting Tim4D- you did a great job with the pics.

I live in North Raleigh and these rocks were collected on my walks along the creek in my back yard on the opposite side of the greenway along Bent Creek. I usually find an interesting looking rock on just about every walk.

Just off Leadmine Road, the old graphite mine and mining efforts from back in the 1800s has left some strange looking artifacts and they are there for the finding.  Also, lots of different minerals - especially if you know what to look for (which Tim4D and his wife made twice as much fun for me by showing me what to look for.)

L82Play
  

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JoeM
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #7 - Nov 12th, 2013 at 9:37pm
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Thanks for the post guys. You have entered a realm we can call
"Raleigh Historical RockLore".  Wink
These are great examples of a couple of "rocklore" questions
asked again and again about the rocks of Raleighwood.

I may not have a definite "answer" for you but by jingo neddy I got an opinion. Wink
First let's talk about the graphite.
I've never seen a conglomeration like the mass of metal(?)
and garnet(?) you've posted above. Very Interesting!
I don't see how all those "garnets" could end up in a piece of slag
or other by-product of the graphite mining industry and have to agree
it looks natural to me. But what is it?
Further tests on the dark metallic looking area are needed.
Given the history of the area where the piece was found,
and all the past graphite mining, the geologist may be right.
The confusion inherent in graphite mines producing pencil "leads" has always been the case,
since the days of mining right up to present.
ie; there was a graphite mine off Lead Mine Rd.
and there were other graphite mines in the area, along House Creek
between Glen Eden and Lake Boone for instance.
The problem really gets acute when the oldtimers swear that
during the Civil War there were lead mines there where
the troops would make ammo. Some swear they used to be
able to walk the creek and find all kinds of musket balls and what not.
These "camps" were supposedly too temporary to be well documented.
One problem with that whole idea is that graphite is not an ore of lead. Huh
Here is a link to another forum I found where they are briefly
talking about the graphite "belt" in this area.
It's good info until you get down to the part where they start talking about
the old Lake Boone being a millpond. The lake started as a
building stone quarry and many of the old houses in the area
are built from it.
Some of the quarry workers "signed", with chisels, the walls
when the quarry closed.
It has since been filled in and homes have been built in the old lakebed.
http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php/topic/19040-the-history-of-the-triangle/page-2

NOW, The question of beryl, and specifically emerald, in Wake County
is about to drive me Crazy!!! Cheesy

Yes, there is one recorded site. Thompson Mill Rd off Hwy 98, Wake Forest.
I have been there. There is nothing to see but a lot of private property. Wink
The old mica mine has been filled in.
There are also claims of Morganite found in that area.
There are several "unrecorded" claims in Wake County.
I have been looking for a Wake County Beryl for 20 years and don't have one.
I have seen one almost yellow green beryl called an emerald that
was reportedly found around Umstead Park,
and, ofcourse, all the claims of emeralds found in Crabtree Creek and quarry.
Just as graphite mines are confused with lead mines because of pencils,
I have to wonder how much confusion there is in the Raleigh rocklore
between the Crabtree Emerald Mine in the mountains and
the quarry here on Crabtree Creek?  Undecided

I've spent enough time on this subject in the past and here and now. Wink
I've heard it is possible to find emeralds in Wake County, yes,
but my guess is going to be that the piece you found in Bent Creek
is from the Crabtree Emerald Mine in the mountains and
somehow, by some one, at some time, found it's way to where you found it.
I know. Call me an old scrooge and skeptic. But there you have it.

Beryl in Wake County, it's killing me............. Grin

Thanks again for a great post. I hope we get some answers
about the first piece.

Joe
  
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L82Play
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #8 - Nov 13th, 2013 at 12:18pm
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Hi - thanks for the reply - great information.

I can vouch for the location where I found the rock to be in the creek behind my house - no doubt about it.  The creek drains from overflow of a sub-division lake and merges into Bent Creek on its way to Shelly Lake and Crab Tree Creek.  Maybe the city trucked an emerald in when they were fixing the side of the road along Leadmine or someone threw it out their car on that hill and it was washed into the creek - but other than those two slim chances, my opinion is the emerald came from somewhere along the creek and I'll be looking for more and will let you know if I find another one - and give it to you.

I have the rocks and will provide them freely to anyone that wants to do any further analysis.  I'd like to know the results myself - so will be happy to help in any way.

cheers,
L82Play
  

sung to the tune of 'Green Acres'
Erosion is the thing for me
I just don't like to dig - you see
Picking rocks up right off the ground
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JoeM
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #9 - Nov 13th, 2013 at 9:44pm
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Oh Yes, L82play, let me just clarify that I have no doubt that
you found the pieces where you say you did. And I really have
no idea how they got there. Wink
I think your finds and this post is great! You have managed to combine
two of the biggest, most common questions of local "Raleigh RockLore"
into the same thread! Well Done and Thank You! Smiley

The questions;
1. Were there lead mines off Lead Mine Rd?
2. Can you find emeralds,or other beryl, in Wake County?

My answer to the first question is; I don't know.
My answer to the second question is; Most definitely.
Both questions are worthy of more research. Wink

I haven't "seen" enough Wake County beryl, or emeralds, to
have anything to compare your piece to, but I've always heard it's out there. Maybe you are one of the lucky few.
I have seen a lot of emerald material that looks exactly like that from the
Crabtree Emerald Mine and even Brazil. It would make sense that
the Wake County material would be similar, but I don't know.
Either way I would label and bag that piece for your collection!

I have never walked the creeks in that area, too much development, too close to town, I don't know. I have looked
at the creek there below Montessori and along Mine Shaft Rd,
but nothing else. Have always wanted to check around Lynn and 6Forks but haven't got a round tuit.
Anyway, I only live a couple miles from you and we will have to
get together sometime. Do some creek crawling or you can bring
those rocks over to the shop and we'll cut 'em up! HA! Wink
I really would like to try and figure out what the big lump w/ garnets is?
Might be some evidence to help answer the question about if there was
ever any lead processing going on in the area. Who knows? Roll Eyes
We may have to start a separate thread for "Beryl in Wake County."
Classic Wake County RockLore here guys!

I'll send you a PM, L82Play, with my contact info.

Joe

  
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #10 - Nov 14th, 2013 at 10:13pm
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Let's not forget about the possibility of the green being chromite a la the green falls lake chromite. The pics are a little grainy, i suspect chromite though.


-Dave
  
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Tim4d
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #11 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 11:34am
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Dave, in person it looked just like something picked up at the MAGMA-run emerald mine near Spruce Pine, but visual is the only "test" I made, so just about anything green is in the running.
Pics are best I could do with a my iphone.  Taking good photos with good equipment, even developing film/making prints, used to be part of earning my livelihood (a l-o-n-g time ago).  But now I'm spoiled with the easy and always available phone camera.  Besides, my eyes won't cooperate with manual focusing any more!
  
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Tim4d
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #12 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 11:36am
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Next time we visit Pop-Pop, I hope my foot will be healed up enough to hike up the creek.
  
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #13 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 9:56pm
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Thanks for the pics, Tim. Smiley
and thanks for the suggestion, dave. Smiley
good idea on the chromite. Just from the looks of it
that would be a really big piece of the chromite so I'm still
leaning toward the emerald in matrix possibility.
Anyway, I'm supposed to get over to L82Play's Monday after work
and get a good look at the specimens.
Looking forward to it! Wink

Y'all have a great weekend. Smiley
Joe
  
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JoeM
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #14 - Nov 24th, 2013 at 1:59pm
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Well, Oh Kay Doe Kay, Finally!, ol'Joe is getting around to
adding to the continuing mystery surrounding the "Rocks of Pop-Pop Point".  Wink

I did actually make it by to meet L82Play last Monday evening.
I saw some of his rock collection and the creek, Mine Creek(?),
in his backyard where most of his rocks are coming from.
A more convenient situation for a rockhound is hard to imagine,
and, I must say, after meeting L82Play I can assure you he is
a rockhound, and he's got it bad!  Grin
It was very good to meet you, Robert, and I hope you are doing well.
Let me know when you think you are up to a walk.

L82Play allowed me to take the above pictured Rocks in Question
home with me.
And it's going to take more time..............alot more. Grin
I think we are going to have to take these rocks as an opportunity
to look at the "Bigger Picture" of Wake County Geology,
and that may mean having to branch off into other threads,
eventually.
I have not had a chance to look closely or test the large piece
with what looks like degraded garnet, but have been looking into
the history of graphite mining in Wake Co. It is interesting
how the confusion between the names graphite and lead have always been there
throughout time. Other names for graphite are "Black Lead" and Plumbago, (pb).
The old mines upcreek from L82Play had their heyday from
about 1820 - 1880, which was also the heyday of the "pencil".
Graphite production continued sporadically up until 1906,
but to go into more detail, let's start another thread for graphite mining in Wake Co.
It will be easier to find with it's own heading.
For very helpful historical information on the history of the use of graphite
and the pencil, here is a link from Wiki;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pencil

I am used to seeing the platy, easily separated layer type of graphite
in many areas of Wake Co., and forgot how solid and high grade
the graphite from the Mine Creek area is. I look forward to looking at more of it. Smiley



  
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