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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Pop-Pop Point, NC (Read 25274 times)
JoeM
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #45 - Apr 30th, 2014 at 11:43pm
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Yep, you got it.  4000 BP is equal to 2000 BC.
And yes, that banded quartz stuff makes for a pretty flashy spearpoint.
I know you think it's nicer than most because you found it! Wink
The maker was definitely an artist! Smiley
  
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #46 - Jun 11th, 2014 at 1:43pm
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Hi,

I don't know Joe, I've been looking a lot and haven't found another one 'purtyier' yet and I'd say that even if it was yours.  Cheesy

But I'm very eager to see what these guys have found:

http://www.wral.com/donated-arrowheads-could-help-write-nc-history/13714820/

I'm buzzed and will follow this story!  But it makes me ponder...

Once they produce a map of where they found their arrowheads, would you go to the spot where they found the most hoping to find left-overs or go where they found the least because they haven't found them all yet?

Hummm.  What do you think?  Undecided

cheers,
r
  

sung to the tune of 'Green Acres'
Erosion is the thing for me
I just don't like to dig - you see
Picking rocks up right off the ground
is good enough for this lucky old rockhound
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JoeM
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #47 - Jul 30th, 2014 at 9:29pm
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Okay Dokey, Robert, and All,
the moment we have been waiting for!  Cheesy

I put a bug in Dr. Fodors' ear a couple weeks ago lamenting
that we did not have the results of his analysis to share at
the upcoming rock shows and rockhound conventions going on now,
if anyone was interested.
And low and behold when I got back in town there it was!
Many thanks to Dr. Fodor for doing this for us!

I don't know yet how this information will help us. We now need to compare
Dr. Fodor's findings with any chemical analysis we can find from other areas,
such as Hiddenite, the Crabtree, and Brazil.
It will be interesting to see if it is possible to designate any one chemical signature
to any of these sites enough to single-out ours?
And I am not going to offer my opinion on the analysis until
everyone has had a chance to study it. Lips Sealed

Without further ado, here are the results of the chemical analysis.
Dr. Fodor first confirmed that both pieces were beryl.
*Beryllium content is too "light" for his equipment to test for.
As a recap, following the analysis I will post pics of the two beryls.
Starting with a few pics of the first emerald, that have already been posted somewhere above,
and then first time pics of the second emerald.
The "small chip" is from the first emerald found
and the "large polished disc" is the second.
  

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DSCN1610.JPG
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JoeM
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #48 - Jul 30th, 2014 at 9:33pm
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Mine Creek Emerald #1

  

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JoeM
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #49 - Jul 30th, 2014 at 9:38pm
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And Mine Creek Emerald #2.
The crystal is nearly an inch in diameter.
Pics are, Side A, end, Side B, and after cutting disc.

  

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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #50 - Aug 2nd, 2014 at 5:08pm
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Hi,

Been surfing the web looking for chemical analysis of emeralds and there is not much.  Let me know if you know where to find it.

Here's what I found. I know our emeralds are natural per this 1984 article saying you can tell the difference between synthetic and natural emeralds by their trace mineral content:

"In the samples analyzed here, chlorine (Cl) was found in all the hydrothermal synthetics, but in no other emeralds examined.

Na20, MgO, and FeO are all present in greater quantities in natural emeralds than in the synthetics.

Na20 was found in amounts not exceeding 0.1 wt.% in synthetics but up to 2.3 wt.% in natural emeralds, therefore suggesting that quantities appreciably greater than 0.1 wt.% indicate natural origin."

Here is the link (copy and paste it)
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?blobcol=gfile&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&blobheadername2=MDT-Type&blobheadername3=Content-Type&blobheadervalue1=attachment%3B+filename%3DThe-Chemical-Distinction-of-Natural-from-Synthetic-Emeralds&blobheadervalue2=abinary%3B+charset%3DUTF-8&blobheadervalue3=application%2Funknown&blobkey=id&blobtable=GIA_DocumentFile&blobwhere=1355958462307&ssbinary=true

and a second article with a table of the chemical analysis of Emerald from Columbia and Aquamarine from Siberia.

Here's the link:
http://www.minelinks.com/alluvial/emerald.html

and here is a table combining our results with the article's data:

Cmpd Name                    FIRST SECOND Colum Siberia
SiO2      Silicon dioxide            65      64.7      67.85      66.17
TiO2      Titanium dioxide            0.01      0.02      -      -
Al2O3      Aluminum Oxide            15.1      16.7      17.95      20.39
Cr2O3 Chromium(III) oxide      0.31      0.17      trace      -
FeO      Iron(II) oxide            0.59      0.35      -      0.69
MnO      Manganese(II) oxide      0.01      0.01      -      -
MgO      Magnesium oxide            1.5      0.76      0.9      -
Na2O      Sodium oxide            1.5      0.92      0.7      0.24
K2O      Potassium oxide            0.04      0.01      -      -
BeO      Beryllium oxide            not      meas.      12.4      11.5
Li2O      Lithium oxide            -      -      -      trace
H2O      Water                       -      -      1.66      1.14

hummm...
-there is a measurable amount of Iron Oxide on ours, but none measured on the Columbia emerald
-there is a lot of Chromium(III) oxide  on ours, but only a trace measured on the Columbia emerald

I know ours came from Mine creek, Wake County cause that's where I found them.  But looking at the data, can one conclude our emeralds are not from Columbia?

cheers,
r
  

sung to the tune of 'Green Acres'
Erosion is the thing for me
I just don't like to dig - you see
Picking rocks up right off the ground
is good enough for this lucky old rockhound
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JoeM
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #51 - Aug 3rd, 2014 at 12:23am
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Thanks for breaking that down for us, Robert.
Good job on finding any chemical analysis to compare ours to.
I find the "trace" of Chromium and absence of Iron in the
Columbian sample very surprising.
And I think the similarities between our two pieces looks good.
We'll have to keep looking for more comparisons and maybe get some more tests run
on some Crabtree Emerald Mine material in the mean time.
I'm not sure what "conclusions" can be derived at this point
but if someone wants to say the emeralds you found in
Mine Creek, Wake County, NC, come from someplace else,
I'd say it was up to them to prove it! Wink
Good Work!
  
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #52 - Aug 4th, 2014 at 5:16am
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Smiley
  
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L82Play
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #53 - Aug 12th, 2014 at 6:14pm
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I found 2 pages with some chemical composition tables.  I'll try to paste them as pics so you can expand them.

Site 1:

http://www.minersoc.org/pages/Archive-MM/Volume_38/38-295-328.pdf


Site2:

http://tupa.gtk.fi/julkaisu/erikoisjulkaisu/ej_015_synopsis.pdf

  

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sung to the tune of 'Green Acres'
Erosion is the thing for me
I just don't like to dig - you see
Picking rocks up right off the ground
is good enough for this lucky old rockhound
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #54 - Oct 21st, 2014 at 12:55pm
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Hi,

A bit of excitement today - a reporter from the News and Observer, Josh Shaffer, interviewed me today about the Wake County emeralds me and my grandkids found.  He may want to talk to you too JoeM, Tim4D and Scarodactyl and said he may discuss with Professor Fodor.

So be on the look-out for an article in the News and Observer newspaper soon.  There may even be a pic of me - so be prepared for the shock!  Shocked

cheers,
r
  

sung to the tune of 'Green Acres'
Erosion is the thing for me
I just don't like to dig - you see
Picking rocks up right off the ground
is good enough for this lucky old rockhound
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rockytoprockshop
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #55 - Oct 22nd, 2014 at 9:08am
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For what this may be worth to any of you, many years ago I was at a show in Raleigh and there was a man there from Virginia who had allot of Virginia and northern NC minerals, especially the Raleigh area. Anyway, this fellow had several pieces of yellowish green beryl that he claimed were from Raleigh on display. They were the classic beryl form all being broken pieces without terminations and opaque. I tried to buy one from him and he refused to sell, he stated they were very hard to come by. The good thing is, being the pack rat that I am, I am pretty dog-on sure that I still have his business card! Joe, if you want the number and name, let me know. I've never called him back, should have. Bare in mind, this was at least 20 years ago so I can't say if he is alive or not but its a start. I will never forget seeing those pieces because I myself had prospected along the creek near the old mica mine that you mentioned for beryl before I meet this fellow and a local in the area (at that time) did know about beryl crystals being found nearby. But....I live in Richmond County, 90 miles away and the trip to Raleigh wasn't always easy. If you will look on a geologic map of NC, you'll notice that "similar" geologic veins of granitic composition appear to continue along the "fall line" southwest through a portion of Richmond County. There are pegmatites, mica gneiss, granite, schist here as well only...a lot smaller outcroppings than your area for sure. However, I did find a beryl specimen in Richmond County. It isn't pretty. It is comprised of several small pale almost olive green crude xls on a quartz and mica matrix. I only found one piece before Vulcan Materials Company purchased the land and posted it. Today it lies partly within the north edge of the quarry operations. However, I also found an exposed quartz vein on the property that someone had clearly been chipping crystals out of, the shards of quartz exposed showed the typical indentions and striations where something of shape had been busted out of the matrix. A few of the shards had "Chips" of the original crystals in them and they were of a deep green color. Obviously, whoever dug them, was not a real rockhound because they must have destroyed the crystals in their attempt to bust them from the matrix! However, today this area belongs to Vulcan but I plan to get permission to explore it if they will let me. Personally, I believe that from Raleigh southwest through Richnond County, continuing on to Liberty Hill, SC all share a similar geology with most of it in my area over-layed by coastal plain sediments, but where exposed there are mineral deposits even this far south of Raleigh. I have absolutely no doubt that it is only a matter of time before beryl in some quantity is found in the Raleigh area. I may not live there but I certainly see the potential for Wake County to have anything as good or if not better than anywhere else in the state.
  
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #56 - Oct 23rd, 2014 at 11:54am
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Thanks for the info RockyTop - if you ever get to Raleigh and want to crawl the creek, send me a PM and if my health allows, I'll give you the grand tour.

I think I see what you are talking about on the map.  Very, very interesting!  Great input.

Just from the empirical evidence I've gathered, I agree completely. The creeks cut their path about 4-8 feet down so I'm thinking that 'digging' gets rid of your surface ' over-layed by coastal plain sediments' and over the years, the creek bottom has dug down and through the level where mineral deposits are hiding.  Each good rain along with it's erosion - especially  on the side of the banks as the creek get wider - washes out new rocks - what I call a new delivery. Grin

The whole set-up is  similar to a giant sluice - ever time we get a big rain - new things pop up - i.e., PopPop Point  Cheesy

cheers,
r

  

sung to the tune of 'Green Acres'
Erosion is the thing for me
I just don't like to dig - you see
Picking rocks up right off the ground
is good enough for this lucky old rockhound
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #57 - Oct 24th, 2014 at 10:20am
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L82play,

Thanks for your invite, I appreciate it. Your also invited to look me up anytime your down in the Rockingham area. We have a creek here also that I want to explore sometimes. There's massive smoky and clear quartz in it, mica sheets, schrol, etc. I need to get down there and explore it. I too have had health problems which is the reason I took a long time away from collecting. My blood pressure along with other factors pushed me to the brink of a major stroke and made me feel terrible. I've been slowly trying to get back into health so that I can get out again and tackle long hikes. That creek of yours sound's like a neat spot! Who knows what you'll find? I will never forget seeing those Wake County beryls some years ago. I did find the mans name and number who had them the other day, if you want that info, I'd be glad to pass it on to you. Like I was telling Joe in the email, I don't know if the fellow is alive or not, good Lord its been over 20 years ago but I did save his card. I'll loose my car keys everyday but manage to somehow save anything associated with a rock or rockhound contact, lol. Anyway, nice talking to you and lot's of luck with your collecting.
  
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #58 - Nov 3rd, 2014 at 5:19pm
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Hi,

Just a quick update on the saga.  Before the reporter will print his story, he wants to verify that it is an emerald and a rare find.  If it is an emerald, it is indeed a rare find, but as far as declaring it an emerald, chemical analysis is not enough.  It has to look purty too!!! Per Joe's quote:

"Emeralds really depend more on their quality than anything else and it is more a matter for a gemologist than a geologist."

So I guess, depending upon your opinion, these rocks could be emeralds or merely green beryl...(although I think green beryl is a rare find too - how about you?)

Thus, I'm looking for a gemologist close to Raleigh.  Let me know if you know any.

And, as always, onward through the fog of rocks rocks rocks!

cheers,
r
Grin
  

sung to the tune of 'Green Acres'
Erosion is the thing for me
I just don't like to dig - you see
Picking rocks up right off the ground
is good enough for this lucky old rockhound
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Re: Pop-Pop Point, NC
Reply #59 - Nov 7th, 2014 at 10:22am
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Hi

I spoke to a gemologist and according to GIA manual, the difference between Green Beryl and Emerald is their color - light green is usually considered green beryl while medium to dark green are considered emeralds.

But color is just one aspect and based upon other qualities, both Green Beryl and Emeralds are used to make gems/jewelry per this interesting web site/article.

http://naturalemerald.wordpress.com/2009/09/14/which-emerald-is-a-good-emerald/

Bottom line - beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

cheers,
r
  

sung to the tune of 'Green Acres'
Erosion is the thing for me
I just don't like to dig - you see
Picking rocks up right off the ground
is good enough for this lucky old rockhound
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