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Maury
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Gluten tag!
Oct 20th, 2023 at 9:59am
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Nope. I’m not German, I’ve just been starring at this screen for a couple minutes trying to figure out a good start. My wife and I have been picking up rocks all our lives. Sometimes “pretty” rocks sometimes “interesting“ rocks. Lately I’ve been spending more time learning about what I’ve got and where I want to go to find more/different rocks.  I live in southern Illinois so travel is a requisite as we only have limestone, sand and dirt… mostly.  Just got back from a trip to the northwest where we dug up some agate material from Maury Mountain agate beds. This was our first get real dirty rockhounding experience. This in particular dropped me into some questions I could not get answers to online etc. So here I am and will post a question or two shortly that I hope you can help me with.
  
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JoeM
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Re: Gluten tag!
Reply #1 - Oct 20th, 2023 at 5:01pm
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Welcome to the Board, Maury! No worries here, everything on the board is Gluten free! Smiley
If I was going out west to hunt for agate for the first time I'd go somewhere named after me, too!  (Okay, I'll stop, promise.  Wink)

Seriously tho, I have some beautiful old stock Maury Mtn agate but would love to see some of what's being found these days.
Are y'all lapidaries?
Back when more mining was being done Southern Illinois was the Fluorite capitol of the country. There are still lots of great specimens to be found in the tailing piles and around some of those old mines.
For more information and if you have never been the next place you want to venture to is Marion, Kentucky and the Ben E. Clement Mineral Museum. It's like a mini Smithsonian in the heart of the Midwest. They can also tell you at the museum what local mines are presently open to collect at. On a scale of 1-5, I give it a 10.
https://clementmineralmuseum.org/
Enjoy the ferry ride across the Ohio River there at Cave-In Rock!

If I lived up there I would also be looking in the Sparta area for old coal mine tailings to hunt for the incredible "Pyrite Suns". I wanted to stock up on those before the mining stopped and they became hard to come by but missed the boat on that one.

Love to see some pictures of what you've collected!
  
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Maury
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Re: Gluten tag!
Reply #2 - Oct 21st, 2023 at 9:37am
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Dang spell checker!  Smiley  Good info on Illinois / area locations. Thanks.
I’ve attached my problem here showing a scale on the quartz that will not come off with either muratic acid or iron out.
And a shot of cleaned but not polished small pieces for Muary Mnts.
I built a flat lap on my drill press and worked up some stones but I don’t have pictures of that yet. Also all my bigger pieces with better flow on them are still awaiting attention.
  

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Maury
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Re: Gluten tag!
Reply #3 - Oct 21st, 2023 at 9:39am
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Oops learning curve. Picture of scale on quartz. Whiter material is the acid/iron out treated
  

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JoeM
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Re: Gluten tag!
Reply #4 - Oct 22nd, 2023 at 6:51pm
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Well Cool, Maury, there's a nice deep blue color in some of that quartz. Some of it would be good tumble material. Like to see some of it cut.  Wink
Iron Out is the best stuff to use. If it doesn't come off with that, it's usually included in the quartz and isn't going to come out.
I only use Muratic for special jobs. Not a good all purpose rock cleaner because it will eat your specimens. I see it's doing a pretty good job on the mica and oxides coated piece you pictured but I wouldn't bother trying on a piece like that. Actually you can see the shape of the surface crystals with the mineral coating on better than after losing all the definition in the acid bath. But up to you. Cool
  
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Scott LaBorde
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Re: Gluten tag!
Reply #5 - Oct 24th, 2023 at 12:14pm
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Welcome to the RHL Maury. Well done for your first "get real dirty" rockhounding. As Joe said it will be real nice to see some of that blue quartz cut and polished. Since you already have the muriatic and since you have so many pieces to test I would try one piece just to see how it turns out. As Joe said Iron Out will be the best solution to clean most everything without too much worry of your specimens getting damage.  In this hobby there is a lot of experimentation but you learn the most that way.
  

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Maury
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Re: Gluten tag!
Reply #6 - Nov 15th, 2023 at 4:51pm
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I’ve tried posting a picture or two but keep running into file size problems.  I’ll try again here with A picture of better samples.  Flat lapped some flat surfaces to see what I have.  No polish yet
  

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Maury
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Re: Gluten tag!
Reply #7 - Nov 15th, 2023 at 4:59pm
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I haven’t “noticed” any damage from the acid. Was just desperate trying to remove haze on crystal.  I bought a textile gun and it did a great job removing thick crust (?) off of crystals, crevices …. still a haze though.  Lost a lot of matrix with the gun, got carried away but many specimens pass light / glow now which isn’t bad.

Are these MM Agates what you have seen?   Not what I expected but pretty happy.
  
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JoeM
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Re: Gluten tag!
Reply #8 - Nov 16th, 2023 at 10:16am
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Yes, those cleaned up nicely. Healthy looking agate and druse! The textile gun was a good addition.
No, that is not what I think of for Maury Mtn agate. I think of golden brown moss agate, but the color and fortifications in what you found is very nice! Smiley
  
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Scott LaBorde
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Re: Gluten tag!
Reply #9 - Nov 20th, 2023 at 8:46am
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Very nice! I just wanted to add that many times when there is a coating of feldspar or other minerals it often leaves an etched surface.  This would be leaving the "haze" you're talking about -- which would mean that no matter how strong an acid you use you'll never get rid of the haze because it's not something that can melt off.  You would have to physically polish each individual crystal face, which of course would be either impossible or at the very least incredibly impractical. If you take a close look at the haze with a 10X loupe you should be able to see the microscopic divots on the quartz surface creating that haze.
  

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Maury
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Re: Gluten tag!
Reply #10 - Nov 20th, 2023 at 8:04pm
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Joe/ Scott. Thanks. I have learned a lot already.

Scott, I took a hard look at a “iron out” , acid treated, textile gun scoured sample with a loop.
At first I thought there was still a consistent layer of something on the crystal structure as I could see a layer of some material when viewed end on. Often there is a clean point surrounded by “haze” But then I did start to notice that much of the crystal material was, for lack of a better description, clean, but hazed with an etched texture.
My only caveat is that the etched material may appear to have some thickness itself.  Hard to tell.

FYI, The thick gunk stuff fills the area between crystals or covers completely. This often comes free easily. Affected 50% or more of the samples. A thin coating can remain which is opaque/hazy. In cases all the gunk can pop off and show a clean crystal face, if rarely.  About 30% of the samples were clean to start. So my experience with this stuff is brief and all over the place.

Any insight on what the gunk is since it’s ok with acid?  It’s been weeks but I think I did get an initial (acid) chemical reaction but no significant cleanup.

Thanks again for the help and info   
  
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JoeM
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Re: Gluten tag!
Reply #11 - Nov 21st, 2023 at 12:17pm
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Well, Maury, sounds like with all your excellent experimentation you are discovering the answers to your own questions! Good job! Smiley

That has been my experience at removing the “gunk”. Some of it will flick off with an x-acto knife and have a beautiful un-etched crystal surface beneath and some will take 3 or 4 or more soakings in acid or Iron Out, to remove satisfactorily, only to be left with an etched surface, and some will be partially included in the quartz and be permanent.
There are different types of “gunks” depending on the locality and mineral being collected, and it can be a decision whether to try and remove it or not. This coating from Maury Mtn looks like a secondary or tertiary coating of silica, or quartz, possibly mixed with feldspar, mica, and other mineral detritus that settled over time onto the crystals, which is why you may have gotten and initial reaction to the acid.  But Scott or someone may have a better explanation.

I'm still getting a kick out of you choosing your namesake mountain location to collect at,  Cool,  and I've done a little surfing to see what's being found out there today. I did see some pieces like what you found and yes, they are still finding the golden brown, yellow, green and red moss, too. Oregon sure makes some pretty agate!
Good luck and good job!
  
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